Not really sure how to phrase this question, so I will just tell you what I think. Please correct me if I am wrong about the following weapon stats.
Delay - the lower, the better. (amount of time in between each attack)
Ratio - the lower, the better (based on damage vs delay)
Comparative Efficiency - the higher, the better
Is efficiency gathered from the ratio + other stats, such as effects and stat increases? If not, what does Comparative Efficiency mean, exactly? What is Offhand Efficiency? Any other general advice about comparing weapons?
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delay, yes, the lower, the fast the weapon swings. Now, if you are a warrior, for most levels, the faster the better. If you are a monk/ranger, go for high ratio weapons when possible, as low delay = problem.
ratio, the Higher the better. dmg / delay. 15 / 20 is better than 12 / 20.
not sure about comparative efficiency. I don't look at it, I judge it myself depends on what stats I need. HP is always welcome no matter what melee class I play.
compare weapons, I would choice based on ratio first, then stats (espcially procs, HP and resist, worn effects), then delay.
ratio, the Higher the better. dmg / delay. 15 / 20 is better than 12 / 20.
not sure about comparative efficiency. I don't look at it, I judge it myself depends on what stats I need. HP is always welcome no matter what melee class I play.
compare weapons, I would choice based on ratio first, then stats (espcially procs, HP and resist, worn effects), then delay.
mrtiedye, didn't you quit eq?
If so, welcome back.
If so, welcome back.
Quote:
mrtiedye, didn't you quit eq?
If so, welcome back.
If so, welcome back.
Shhh. Don't tell nobody. I swore I would never come back, so I don't want people to think I am a liar....
Quote:
mrtiedye, didn't you quit eq?
If so, welcome back
If so, welcome back
I was thinking just the same thing.. and welcome home
edit .. and yes yes and yes to your original post (I think)
Edited, Tue Oct 4 08:49:06 2005 by egnaro
9. ..... You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction)any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.
Liar! Liar!
*lol*
Edit: Welcome back
Edited, Tue Oct 4 08:49:30 2005 by bbot
*lol*
Edit: Welcome back
Edited, Tue Oct 4 08:49:30 2005 by bbot
Just a guess, but comparative efficiency probably factors in damage bonus.
Since all 1h weapons have the same bonus based on character level, even though a 10/20 and 20/40 have the same ratio the 10/20 swings twice as often so the bonus gets applied twice as often. It's what made moss covered twigs so insanely powerful at the time. If for example the average you hit for is DMGx2 (I dunno what the calc is anymore, but for lvl 65 the damage bonus was 13), the 10/20 would hit for 33, the 20/40 for 53, the former DPS would be 16.5 while the latter 13.25
Offhand efficiency would be lower since the bonus doesn't get applied.... unless that changed, been awhile since I payed attention to the numbers behind all this.
Edited, Tue Oct 4 10:45:24 2005 by Toasticle
Since all 1h weapons have the same bonus based on character level, even though a 10/20 and 20/40 have the same ratio the 10/20 swings twice as often so the bonus gets applied twice as often. It's what made moss covered twigs so insanely powerful at the time. If for example the average you hit for is DMGx2 (I dunno what the calc is anymore, but for lvl 65 the damage bonus was 13), the 10/20 would hit for 33, the 20/40 for 53, the former DPS would be 16.5 while the latter 13.25
Offhand efficiency would be lower since the bonus doesn't get applied.... unless that changed, been awhile since I payed attention to the numbers behind all this.
Edited, Tue Oct 4 10:45:24 2005 by Toasticle
I believe the old formula for comparing weapons (primary only)was DMG x 2 + DMG bonus divided by delay. Remember delay is in seconds so 25 delay = 2.5 seconds.
Velium Gemmed Morningstar 16/20 DMG bonus 14. (16x2=32+14=46/2.0=23) Ratio of 23
Soulpiercer 15/19 DMG bonus 14. (15x2=30+14=44/1.9=23.15) Ratio of 23.15.
Long Sword of the Ykesha 12/17 DMG bonus 14. (12x2=24+14=38/1.7=22.35) Ratio of 22.35
I had been told before that decimals are rounded up or down. With AA's and 70 level cap now this may not be completely accurate. This obviously doesn't factor in procs.
Velium Gemmed Morningstar 16/20 DMG bonus 14. (16x2=32+14=46/2.0=23) Ratio of 23
Soulpiercer 15/19 DMG bonus 14. (15x2=30+14=44/1.9=23.15) Ratio of 23.15.
Long Sword of the Ykesha 12/17 DMG bonus 14. (12x2=24+14=38/1.7=22.35) Ratio of 22.35
I had been told before that decimals are rounded up or down. With AA's and 70 level cap now this may not be completely accurate. This obviously doesn't factor in procs.
Quote:
I believe the old formula for comparing weapons (primary only)was DMG x 2 + DMG bonus divided by delay. Remember delay is in seconds so 25 delay = 2.5 seconds.
Velium Gemmed Morningstar 16/20 DMG bonus 14. (16x2=32+14=46/2.0=23) Ratio of 23
Soulpiercer 15/19 DMG bonus 14. (15x2=30+14=44/1.9=23.15) Ratio of 23.15.
Long Sword of the Ykesha 12/17 DMG bonus 14. (12x2=24+14=38/1.7=22.35) Ratio of 22.35
I had been told before that decimals are rounded up or down. With AA's and 70 level cap now this may not be completely accurate. This obviously doesn't factor in procs.
Velium Gemmed Morningstar 16/20 DMG bonus 14. (16x2=32+14=46/2.0=23) Ratio of 23
Soulpiercer 15/19 DMG bonus 14. (15x2=30+14=44/1.9=23.15) Ratio of 23.15.
Long Sword of the Ykesha 12/17 DMG bonus 14. (12x2=24+14=38/1.7=22.35) Ratio of 22.35
I had been told before that decimals are rounded up or down. With AA's and 70 level cap now this may not be completely accurate. This obviously doesn't factor in procs.
I could be wrong, but I do recall a long debate settled long ago that the damage bonus is to the damage roll not to the damage of the weapon.
if you say ratio is damage over delay, then higher is better. vice versa, and lower.
no. that's not worth one jelly bean. I'll let gb or someone else explain why, since i'm going to bed now.
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I believe the old formula for comparing weapons (primary only)was DMG x 2 + DMG bonus divided by delay. Remember delay is in seconds so 25 delay = 2.5 seconds.
no. that's not worth one jelly bean. I'll let gb or someone else explain why, since i'm going to bed now.
I had read that when considering procs, the higher the delay the more often your weapon procs. Slow also seems to affect proc rate, as my orb on my chanter procs about 9 out of ten swings if I can actually get slow to stick on myself. Keep in mind I am swinging alot less, though, so I do not know if, over time, I am actually procing more, but it does appear that I may be.
This reasoning is why, on my melee characters, I have a fast weapon in primary and either a high damage, high delay weapon with an aug proc in secondary or just a high proc dmg weapon with the worst delay I can find.
I also sometimes switch out my rogue's fast weapon for a slower, higher dmg weapon when backstabbing alot. I have also heard of similar uses of the slower, high dmg weapons for riposting or some such.
I only look at procs on my casters if I want them to carry a weapon. For the most part, the damage they do with pure melee is relatively small and there are some really nice procs out there, especially when you get a critical process.
In essence, what I am saying is that delay/damage and efficiency and far from the only things that I look at when comparing weapons.
This reasoning is why, on my melee characters, I have a fast weapon in primary and either a high damage, high delay weapon with an aug proc in secondary or just a high proc dmg weapon with the worst delay I can find.
I also sometimes switch out my rogue's fast weapon for a slower, higher dmg weapon when backstabbing alot. I have also heard of similar uses of the slower, high dmg weapons for riposting or some such.
I only look at procs on my casters if I want them to carry a weapon. For the most part, the damage they do with pure melee is relatively small and there are some really nice procs out there, especially when you get a critical process.
In essence, what I am saying is that delay/damage and efficiency and far from the only things that I look at when comparing weapons.
Quote:
I had read that when considering procs, the higher the delay the more often your weapon procs. Slow also seems to affect proc rate, as my orb on my chanter procs about 9 out of ten swings if I can actually get slow to stick on myself. Keep in mind I am swinging alot less, though, so I do not know if, over time, I am actually procing more, but it does appear that I may be.
This reasoning is why, on my melee characters, I have a fast weapon in primary and either a high damage, high delay weapon with an aug proc in secondary or just a high proc dmg weapon with the worst delay I can find.
This reasoning is why, on my melee characters, I have a fast weapon in primary and either a high damage, high delay weapon with an aug proc in secondary or just a high proc dmg weapon with the worst delay I can find.
nope!
a higher delay weapon will proc more times per swing. overall, with the same procmod, they will proc the SAME number of times. it's just you proc in fewer swings, since you swing fewer times.
czaemon wrote:
Semiopaque wrote:
I believe the old formula for comparing weapons (primary only)was DMG x 2 + DMG bonus divided by delay. Remember delay is in seconds so 25 delay = 2.5 seconds.
no. that's not worth one jelly bean. I'll let gb or someone else explain why, since i'm going to bed now.
Still in bed, or would you be so kind as give us an explanation now?
Quote:
I had read that when considering procs, the higher the delay the more often your weapon procs. Slow also seems to affect proc rate, as my orb on my chanter procs about 9 out of ten swings if I can actually get slow to stick on myself. Keep in mind I am swinging alot less, though, so I do not know if, over time, I am actually procing more, but it does appear that I may be.
This reasoning is why, on my melee characters, I have a fast weapon in primary and either a high damage, high delay weapon with an aug proc in secondary or just a high proc dmg weapon with the worst delay I can find.
I also sometimes switch out my rogue's fast weapon for a slower, higher dmg weapon when backstabbing alot. I have also heard of similar uses of the slower, high dmg weapons for riposting or some such.
I only look at procs on my casters if I want them to carry a weapon. For the most part, the damage they do with pure melee is relatively small and there are some really nice procs out there, especially when you get a critical process.
In essence, what I am saying is that delay/damage and efficiency and far from the only things that I look at when comparing weapons.
This reasoning is why, on my melee characters, I have a fast weapon in primary and either a high damage, high delay weapon with an aug proc in secondary or just a high proc dmg weapon with the worst delay I can find.
I also sometimes switch out my rogue's fast weapon for a slower, higher dmg weapon when backstabbing alot. I have also heard of similar uses of the slower, high dmg weapons for riposting or some such.
I only look at procs on my casters if I want them to carry a weapon. For the most part, the damage they do with pure melee is relatively small and there are some really nice procs out there, especially when you get a critical process.
In essence, what I am saying is that delay/damage and efficiency and far from the only things that I look at when comparing weapons.
as Groogle pointed out, it's not correct.
proc rate has nothing to do with delay. proc rate is a set number (number of proc / min), which can be affect by:
- dex
- weapon proc AAs
- proc rate modifier like combat effect
- primary or secondary slot
I forget the exact difference between primary and secondary slot, I think increasing dex only increase proc rate on primary but not secondary or something like that.
The reason you see people use slow weapon, get them self slowed, is when warriors try to do AE with their weapons AE procs. Let's say a weapon procs 5 times per mins, and with all those tricks a warrior only swings 10 times per min. It is almost gareenteed that it'll proce in the first few swings. (the details are more complicated, but this is the basic idea)
Edited, Fri Oct 7 12:53:53 2005 by Assailant
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nope!
a higher delay weapon will proc more times per swing. overall, with the same procmod, they will proc the SAME number of times. it's just you proc in fewer swings, since you swing fewer times.
a higher delay weapon will proc more times per swing. overall, with the same procmod, they will proc the SAME number of times. it's just you proc in fewer swings, since you swing fewer times.
My post wasn't really clear at all because I left out a key word.
I had read that when considering procs, the higher the delay the more often your weapon procs when rampaging.
This, I believe, is correct.
Keep in mind I am swinging alot less, though, so I do not know if, over time, I am actually procing more, but it does appear that I may be.
I don't know what I was getting at with this, I guess I was trying to say I've never actually tested it out myself but everything I've heard agrees with what Groogle said. I really need to stop posting stuff when I'm at work late at night.
Anyhow, my real point was supposed to be that there are other things that you should take into consideration other than just delay/ratio/efficiency.
Quote:
The reason you see people use slow weapon, get them self slowed, is when warriors try to do AE with their weapons AE procs. Let's say a weapon procs 5 times per mins, and with all those tricks a warrior only swings 10 times per min. It is almost gareenteed that it'll proce in the first few swings. (the details are more complicated, but this is the basic idea)
Yes, that was what I was trying to get at. I still don't think I have it correct in my response to Groogle, though, so I'll just shut up for awhile.
parses from steel warrior showed the standard proc rate was 2 times per minute mainhand and 1 per minute offhand. proc rate is not affected by haste. Dex, combat effects and weapon affinity will affect the number of times the weapon procs.
Quote:
parses from steel warrior showed the standard proc rate was 2 times per minute mainhand and 1 per minute offhand. proc rate is not affected by haste. Dex, combat effects and weapon affinity will affect the number of times the weapon procs.
true, but dex's effect is so negligble as not to matter.
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