Europeans get Zinged with New Tax

The following was posted on the official site. Tough break for those who live in Europe: -------------- VAT to be Charged for the European Union To comply with changes in the law in the European Union, Sony Online Entertainment game Subscribers who are residents of EU countries will be charged VAT equal to 17.5% of the subscription fees. These changes require that digital services be taxed at the point of consumption , i.e. in your country of residence. The countries currently covered by this policy are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and United Kingdom.

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VAT is almost universal in Europe anyway
# Jul 02 2003 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
VAT is supposed to be charged on everything.

There are quite a lot of exceptions in practice, but they are gradually being whittled away.

I don't think it's of significance one way or the other - what's it going to be, about another $2.25? Can't see anyone stopping playing because of that.

I believe we already pay VAT on our ISP/Cable subs.
Cant see this is right
# Jul 02 2003 at 3:47 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I live in the UK so will pay this extra levy.

If I go to a non EU country and buy drink or cigarrettes with local currency take them home and consume them at home I dont pay VAT.

If I subscribe to EQ play on a US server paying in dollars I pay VAT

But then if they dont get it one way they get it another


Edited, Wed Jul 2 04:05:18 2003
U.S. ARMY
# Jul 02 2003 at 1:55 AM Rating: Decent
I'm a U.S. service member stationed in Europe. I've been playing EQ since long before I was here. SOE recieves my payments from a stateside checking account, so should I be charged by SOE for playing in Europe. Are they going to hand my money over to this country for nothing. I pay for my ADSL. I mean it's my bandwidth, and I can do whatever I like with it right? I just think that if someone is a U.S. citizen and paying with a U.S. banking account, then they should not fall under this attack of our lifestyle. By the way, I did talk to a SOE rep. and he didn't really care about my situation. His advice was, "you'll just have to pay it."



Olifro Jerrycurl <Absolute Madness>
Drood of the 53rd season
Elrollisi Marr

Edited, Wed Jul 2 06:32:02 2003
#Anonymous, Posted: Jul 02 2003 at 12:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Maybe if the states would have a bit more taxes to pay for things like medicare fer everyone, instead of running huge deficits by giving back $400 per kid as a way to get peops to buy more junk, you wouldnt have a lower life expectancy than cuba.
RE: nucklehead
# Jul 02 2003 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
what a moron you are. You are'nt french are you?
Drop the rates
# Jul 02 2003 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent
If I was head of SOE, I'd be a nice guy and drop the rates for EQ in Europe. I bet the Govt would shat there pants if they saw that, ROFL.

Maxium Duelblade
*sigh*
# Jul 01 2003 at 11:58 PM Rating: Default
I think the European Government is just tring to get rid of gaming such as EverQuest (EQ) because they thing it's probably going to hurt them in same way one day and have them look bad (such as the crises when the guy killed himself etc. etc.). The tax would make people think "If I'm going to be taxed for playing a game I already pay for, I'm not going to pay more so I'm quitting" yadi yadi ya. I really think this tax thing is dumb, I really feel sorry for all the European online gamers out there! I just hope they don't add any tax anywhere else (especially U.S.A., considering thats where most people are from on EQ, and SOE would loose a LOT of money from people quitting). Well, I wish the best of luck to all of you!
VAT
# Jul 01 2003 at 10:53 PM Rating: Default
Used to live in Germany, and they had, like a 29 percent sales tax on most non-necessity goods. They like to brag up their socialized medicine and stuff, but I dunno if I want more than 200 bucks added to the price of a computer.
Yea, for a long time, ephemeral products like EQ would slip under the radar, but the governments are good at smelling out revenue, wherever it may lie.
RE: VAT
# Jul 02 2003 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
**
672 posts
VAT in Germany is 7% on food, books and other necessities and 16% on other goods btw
VAT
# Jul 01 2003 at 9:07 PM Rating: Default
What is the standard sales tax in these countries? If it is within range then it should be taxed same as any other product.

We have no tax on clothes, but CT does, what's the difference between eq and clothes... both are something you buy, and sales tax is a way of life.

If the tax is out of hand % wise then it should be a lower rate - everything else is taxed. Paintball is, LARPS are, and now EQ is,

Viva free enterprise!
RE: VAT
# Jul 02 2003 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
**
672 posts
Belgium 21%, Denmark 25%, Germany 16%, Finland 22%, France 19,6%, Greece 18%, Ireland 21%, Italy 20%, Luxembourg 15%, Netherlands 19%, Austria 20%, Portugal 17%, Sweden 25%, Spain 16%, UK 17,5%
RE: VAT
# Jul 01 2003 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
28 posts
I believe that any country in the EU is free to set its own VAT rate. The only caveat is that the rate can be no lower than 15%, as mandated by the EU.
Not Here?
# Jul 01 2003 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
*
85 posts
If you don't think that there is a significant part of the "ruling class" in the US that wouldn't like to try something like this, think again.

Think. Then Vote. Before it is too late.
My 2cp
# Jul 01 2003 at 7:43 PM Rating: Default
Guys look at it this way with one word.

France

I rest my case
Taxes are Everywhere
# Jul 01 2003 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
In the US, we are a lot smarter when we ***** over our population. We use catch phrases like "For the Children" or "Helping the Poor" or even "To give everyone an equal chance" to make our taxes sound better, but they are still the for the same reason....to gain votes politically by giving away something to the lazy and unmotivated.
RE: Taxes are Everywhere
# Jul 02 2003 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
"gain votes politically by giving away something to the lazy and unmotivated"

No, most of the tax giveaways go to corporate America.
Tax
# Jul 01 2003 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
This tax is an attempt to coup some revenue off of overseas sales and goes against current USA tax code. Here in the states any goods and services that you purchase through mail order or phone order from other state, you dont have to pay the sellers state tax or your own state tax just any applicable federal taxes such as excise or whatnot.

This is the big reason for ppl buying "grey-market" goods to avoid paying taxes but just paying for the goods themselves. Many ppl buy their liquor and smokes from the duty free shops near the borders for just this reason. I personally bought my wifes engagement ring from a store in chicago and we lived in Michigan at the time. Saved $400.00 by not paying either Illinois or Michigan sales taxes.

The VAT tax is supposed to be a "Value added" thing where the destination actually provides some value added to the merchandise, usually through services. In the case where you buy something through mail-order, you dont pay your home state sales tax unless that company has a location in your state also. The internet is just a fast and easy way to place an order the same way ppl used to place mail orders and so the states budget ppl want to get more dollars into their coffers by trying to tax all goods and services based on the distribution point instead of the destination point.

The main point is that if youre buying something in one state to use in another state or even to take out of the united states then it is not taxed. Hence the great price for smokes at the duty free store.

I actually knew a guy who bought a car overseas and had it shipped to the usa in such a way that he didnt pay any import taxes, excise taxes, or sales taxes. He saved over $15000 on that deal, but he had to do some finaggling and keep it hush hush also. The car seller overseas was paid cash so he was happy, the guy I knew got the car he wanted so he was happy, but the US gov didnt get any tax money so they wouldnt be happy if they knew bout it. hehe


RE: Tax
# Jul 02 2003 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
Heh, I also know somebody who bought his car overseas - Japan to be precise - to save on the taxes. The thing was, he bought a car intended for sale in Japan, so the steering wheel was on the right side of the car. Was great fun going through the drive-thru at fast food restaurants; he'd always go through backwards so he could order and get his food, lol.

But this EU tax really sucks, though. At least the EU was "kind" enough to allow businesses to base the tax rate for all member nations off of the country that business has a base in. That is, because Sony has offices in the UK, they can charge the UK's 17.5% tax to all members of the EU. Otherwise, residents of Denmark and Sweden would be getting soaked with a 25% tax, ouch!.

As for the suggestion someone made for Sony to lower rates for EU members to make up for the tax; it will NEVER happen. Upgrading the software to handle the new special tax is costing US companies billions of dollars. Add to that the cost of maintaining a system for collecting and paying the tax plus all the lawyer fees to make sure things are legal now and for changes to the tax code in the future. This thing is sapping companies themselves for a LOT of money. Companies have the choice of absorbing these costs (not likely) or raising their prices to compensate. So if anything subcription rates will be going up. They may make an offset rate for Europeans, or they may raise everybody's rate. So if your rates for EQ, your ISP, eBay fees, etc start going up for us here in the US, you can blame it on the EU's shortsided money grab.

For those that had my initial gut reaction, the EU has no legal authority here so they can't enforce US companies to collect taxes for them; well that's technically true. However, the EU has hinted that should a company refuse to pay the taxes, should that company have trouble with copyright infringement in Europe, that government may be too busy to look into the matter. Essentially, "if you try to ***** us over, we'll pwn uR ***** ha ha u l4mers, the EU is teh 1337."

I really think, though, that all business should charge the EU with a "collection fee". That is, collect the required taxes, then remove the expense of collecting such taxes and hand over the remainder. If only a few companies do it, it won't work too well, but if a coallition such as what Wal-Mart formed against the credit card companies in its recent suit were to stick to it, then it just might work.
Vat
# Jul 01 2003 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
It`s just another way of the european governments to try and subdue us and spoil our fun. They can try everything but will not spoil my fun.
Scoialism
# Jul 01 2003 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
Europe is socialized garbage, and you want socialism here in the good ole U.S of A? No thanks!
RE: Scoialism
# Jul 02 2003 at 8:00 AM Rating: Default
RE: Scoialism
# Jul 02 2003 at 8:00 AM Rating: Default
socialism is in the usa , K thanks
RE: Scoialism
# Jul 02 2003 at 11:04 PM Rating: Default
The US is a capitalist society. K thanks NEXT REJECT!
usa is number 1
# Jul 01 2003 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
With 4th of july coming up too...I love this country :)
God Bless America
# Jul 01 2003 at 6:49 PM Rating: Default
Yes another reason we left Europe... They better not try that junk over here
RE: God Bless America
# Jul 02 2003 at 12:28 AM Rating: Default
sorry to burst your bubble but I know there is one state that charges for internet access already, or something similiar on that line. So its happening here in the USA as well.
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