Europeans get Zinged with New TaxJul 1st, 2003 at 4:30 PM by Allakhazam

The following was posted on the official site. Tough break for those who live in Europe: -------------- VAT to be Charged for the European Union To comply with changes in the law in the European Union, Sony Online Entertainment game Subscribers who are residents of EU countries will be charged VAT equal to 17.5% of the subscription fees. These changes require that digital services be taxed at the point of consumption , i.e. in your country of residence. The countries currently covered by this policy are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and United Kingdom.
Tags: EverQuest, News

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agilwiz
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# Nov 06 2003 at 6:22 PM Rating: Default
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Hey, if anyone is selling thier account because of this tax, send me an e-mail agilewiz@yahoo.com

Verified Paypal user!
GL!
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VAT - A few points
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# Jul 09 2003 at 6:15 AM Rating: Default
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VAT is charged on goods and SERVICES supplied. The defining factor for the tax point is the place of use/consumption, I.e. where you play the game.

Information is not taxed, but when was playing a game accessing information.

For players outside of the EU, even if all the supply was made from the EU you would still not be taxed as exports are "Zero rated" ie 0% tax.

For the guy who lived in Jersey you shouldn't have to pay the VAT but Jersey is not an option as place of residence on the account information screen. (I have the same problem, I put my residence down as UK because Bosnia was not an option either).

Where you pay for the game from should not matter it's where you use it that counts. I.e. paid for from French bank account, resident in Ukraine no VAT. Many people from countries with less stable economies have bank accounts in the EU but live outside it. (Try using a Bosnian credit card ANYWHERE)

re Socialism:- UK has not had a Government with even a hint of socialism for over 25 years. Thatcher/Major/Blair
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Wow, It's getting expensive here
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# Jul 07 2003 at 3:21 AM Rating: Decent
rjmiller
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?

Edited, Nov 3rd 2008 7:05am by rjmiller
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RE: Wow, It's getting expensive here
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# Jul 10 2003 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
enigmawow
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Hi,

Living in Germany was Nice for me & the 2 kids, 10 & 11 then; I loved shopping on the "economy"[get D-marks, buy from the Germans].

I wanted to stay in Germany, after my husband dishonored me & the kids.

I was told by another German (woman) to get a divorce {from my Amer. hubby} & marry a German man.

Point being,...... Taxes / expenses, will not drive you from what you really love doing for too long my friend, for you will return to what you care for the most.

Forgive me if I'm way off base here with me comment to you. Just feeling something good from within you.
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Um, it's socialism, what did you expect?
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# Jul 07 2003 at 2:00 AM Rating: Good
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Seriously,

I hate to break the news to you folks on the other side of the pond, but socialism isn't cheap. And you chose it.

Your governments are not necessarily a bunch of greedy scumbags, they just have to pay the medical bills of millions of people in full (among other things), and any entity, be it a person or a government, cannot pull money out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is going to be your wallets.

It's theoretically supposed to be better for you in the end because if you ever have to make extensive use of these services, the total cost of what would otherwise be, say, your medical bills will be far far greater than the total amount of taxes you've ever paid. On the other hand, you could live and die without ever having to make extensive use of those services and gain nothing from the drain on your wallet (which, incidentally, is what your governments are hoping and praying will happen because they know there's no possible way to pay for EVERYBODY making extensive use of the system).

Personally, I think the whole thing is going to cave in on itself because people won't be able to resist abusing the system, but before it does, you might as well get ready for a tax explosion that makes a 17.5% VAT look downright cheap.

There are advantages to living in a country where the government expects you to largely pay your own bills, advantages I'm constantly reminded of when I gas up the car for a buck forty a gallon or buy a pair of Levis for $30 instead of the $150 they cost in places like Austria. Then again, I don't need to ingest a pharmacy's worth of expensive medication to keep my heart beating from breakfast to lunch.

I suppose that's a give-and-take thing.
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Vat
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# Jul 06 2003 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
Anonymous
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Sorry guys n gal's.
But anyone whom works for a corp that is world wide know's that they have to apply to the law's in the nation they do buisness with.

S.O.E isnt playing favorites or getting kick-back's. If they didnt have the VAT payments then you guys wouldnt have everquest. So either kill your heads of state. (my obvious choice) or Write them and tell them hey this isnt what I want.

Maybe they will listen prolly not but maybe.
Dont point fingers at SOE because suprisingly enough they are all not evil. because if they where you wouldnt be holding your PS2 or playing this game.

Peace.
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Damn
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# Jul 05 2003 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Well, ive just cancelled my subscription. F*** em, i already paid VAT when i brought the damn games + expansions.

Wasnt the billing up'd a couple of months back as well?

Just too damn greedy.



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what a ripp off
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# Jul 04 2003 at 7:59 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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I waas stationed in germany way back when and it wasnt that bad and know this eu thing sucks for all there. I feel it is not fair. I would hope that it changes for the best and things get better and not any worse than what it has .
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I swear!
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# Jul 03 2003 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
Anonymous
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grrr..... the governments are too greedy nowadays. anyway, soe should show some sympathy and make it 10$ again for the game... its not like they really need the money...

BtW i am from US


cheese in the pants is worth 2 in the mouth.
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RE: I swear!
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# Jul 03 2003 at 1:39 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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its not like they need the money....

money making entities don't NEED money over they're break-even point, but they consistently try to maximize their profit margin.

econ 101
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#Anonymous, Posted: Jul 03 2003 at 12:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's right. Now I'm trying not to be stereotypical here, but I have run into way too many European a-holes who have ruined my adventures to give a half a crap what taxes your socialist governments throw at you. I'm not saying there aren't thousands of 12 year old retards in america causing the same problem, but at least we expect such immaturity from children. So to all you European's getting jilted and forced to quit, GOOD RIDDANCE. Just my 2cp. That's right, MY 2cp, not my government's. Flame if you want, in case you can't tell already, I don't give a rats a$$.
RE: Let me say this: HA!
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# Jul 03 2003 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Man, if you weren't sitting two computers away from me, I'd threaten you. But I fear your l33t skillz.
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RE: Let me say this: HA!
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# Jul 03 2003 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Go read a book, jerkbox.
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RE: Let me say this: HA!
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# Jul 03 2003 at 1:00 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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can't... too busy... playing everquest....
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RE: Let me say this: HA!
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# Jul 03 2003 at 12:47 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Amen, now if only we can get them to support our American thirst for global domination and wide-spred hyperconsumerism.
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#Anonymous, Posted: Jul 03 2003 at 12:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ...Actually, on second thoughts...
This blows...
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# Jul 03 2003 at 12:32 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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...Actually, on second thoughts...
This still blows.
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Tax Recipts
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# Jul 03 2003 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
__DEL__1591778630890
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I wonder how SOE are going to cope with requests for VAT receipts. Under EU law, any company applying VAT, has to provide a valid VAT receipt upon customer request. I can not think of one EU goverment which accepts electronic VAT reciepts.

A Paper mountain about to begin
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RE: Tax Recipts
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# Jul 03 2003 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
Anonymous
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Anyone who even mildy thinks this is a valid tax go back to your history books and read about the stamp act. This helped crate a new nation. VAT for some services in the EU may be valid and the spirit of VAT may be valid. This thread is not intended to comment on the whole of VAT just the portion that deals with internet communications and the freedom of information sharing that the internet and this game offers. The ability of people across the globe to engage in a common goal and to share comroderee. To talk with another person anywhere in the world. How is this tax gonna help the internet in EU?????

VAT on this service is not valid. It cannot be valid. And noone should rollover and accept it as a needed tax.

Excellent!!! If this is true, swamp em guys swamp em....and if SOE trys to raise my rate to accomadate this Ill take my bussiness else where. SOE more people will think like I am.

SOE have your programers put a checkbox for "VAT receipt sent to your home address?". This will satisfy the above requirement? hummmmmm, how many EU customers? what is the price of international postage? Computer time? Envelopes? Paper? OO wait, Ive got the answer already, SOE cannot program the game for this service.


SOE You may wanna think about your silly copywrite losses that you wont have in EU....sheeze, what good is this game without a valid accout number and server. ***** what savings youll save on protecting your copywrite and give the EU a break....Dont collect it, tell the EU VAT establishment to kiss-off. Provide the folks that have been supportive to you and your pocketbook a break. Geeze if nothing else after each expansion we have to deal with fixing the many "bugs" and endure the hours of 1018 and server unavailables. That should be worth oooooo 17.5%, dont you think??

The EU does not know who is talking to you, so tell em noone is!!!! There case closed. How are they gonna know?
Where is the paper trail? Only you can tell em you have X number of people playing your game. How is SOE gonna prove to everyone out there that they are indeed sending all this VAT money to the appropriate tax collection groups in the various countries?

And its not like anyone can do anything with copywrite if they get the player end of the game. What server they gonna connect to? You hold the account keys and the servers under your control.
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RE: Tax Recipts
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# Jul 05 2003 at 2:49 AM Rating: Default
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I agree totally.

The USA is NOT in the EU and this is what it affect, yet who does the USA treasurey report to in the EU regarding the VAT ?
I am sure that now SoE have to send an account each month for each European player to show what VAT has been received.
Quite simply VAT should NOT be being paid.
If T.Blaire has deciede to launch a new stealth tax on us UK players and has dragged Europe into it as well!!!

A serious complaint needs to be made about this!!
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Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 03 2003 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, what else can I say but "you reap what you sow". Europeans have time and again elected socialists into power, and once again it has come home to roost.

This is exactly what happens when you decide that a parental, Robin Hood-style government knows how to spend your money better than you do. I hope our friends in Europe are happy with what they created.

Unfortunately, we're trending towards just this sort of thing here in the States; more government programs, higher taxes, and most people seem perfectly content to hand over more and more of their hard earned money over to government agencies that will most likely waste it.

It may be too late for our friends on the other side of the pond, but if you want to help yourselves here, vote libertarian in '04.
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 03 2003 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
Anonymous
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I dont know if to curse or laugh.

Goldie dear, you have not understood much about socialism, try to study and understand it before judging it, btw i am definately not a socialist.

And you yourself pay taxes or maybe you're a minor not paying a cent in tax yet. And btw dont you already pay tax on EQ and doesnt it wary depending on what state you live in...?
No put your logic together and what do u see?

When Bill Clinton became President, i knew that the US economy would get stronger. So it did.

When G. W. Bush became President i bet with a close friend (case of beer) that US economy would go down the drain...

Not only do i work outside EU, i am also payed in US$. So how the US economy is doing is of great importance for me. Clinton days were good and i did real good $$$ wise.
Now Bush days is not exactly a Golden Era, US$ is plummeting and no one wants to take responsibility.

My point is simple, wherever you look there are taxes and idiots trying to invent new taxes.
Taxes are non-racial & non-political, they simply have no color, cuz they are invented by people around us. The enemy, lol.

Wonder though what would happen if we were billed from UK (EQ server there).
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 04 2003 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
__DEL__1591765551296
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I hate to burst a Bill Clinton fan's bubble, but a lot of companies began losing money towards the end of Clinton's presidency. Companies began reporting losses just as Bush took office, and it later became known that many companies were reporting false profits during Clinton's reign. People like you that "know" what the economy is going to do based on who is in office make me laugh. Stick to EQ and leave the politics to someone who knows more about them than you, like the Dixie Chicks.
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 05 2003 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
Anonymous
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Your such a jerk Givins.

I lost the bet btw. Cuz US$ didnt really drop off until Bush's 2nd year in office.
Was it Clintons fault that some major companies gave false reports?

So stop being such an a$$hole and do read some financial news and see where your nasdaq is at.
And compare with the rest of the world as well.

Now reply in whole and not to a sentance, you prick.
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 03 2003 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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The boot will be on the other foot when you want to play some of the new MMORPG's developed by British companies such as Dragon Empire and WarHammer Online.

If you want to play, you will have to pay VAT.
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 03 2003 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Quote:
These changes require that digital services be taxed at the point of consumption , i.e. in your country of residence


so american residents will not have to pay VAT on european mmorpg... (unless the US goverment follows the example)
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 04 2003 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
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That is the change in the law that you quoted. The original which is still valid means that any service offered by a European Company has to include VAT.

MMORPG Games provided by a European Company is a product/service and will require VAT to be charged.
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RE: Isn't Socialism Great?
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# Jul 06 2003 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Then I would expect them to price their product 17.5% lower per month or expect to not make massive headway into the world's largest MMORPG market.

Said as one who lives in a state with no income or sales taxes. Live Free or Die, baby!
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=(
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# Jul 02 2003 at 11:06 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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ya know people used to rebel when there was a stupid tax or too much tax and nothing showing for it .... how did we get to be such sheep?

Question everything.
Know nothing.
The Matrix is real
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:(
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# Jul 02 2003 at 7:32 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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The commies strike again
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RE: :(
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# Jul 02 2003 at 11:01 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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/rofl is all i have to say to the ignorance of your statement >)

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Info
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# Jul 02 2003 at 7:01 PM Rating: Default
Tuluvar
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When reading this thread i see alot of people misunderstanding this VAT/tax.

It has nothing to do with EQ really, its all about the service that Sony gives you. THAT is whats being taxed . Its the same as you pay VAT for let's say a carpenter doing some work on your house. Now Sony is not to blame in any way, they just keep their nose clean and enforce the new rule.
Only one thing i dont understand is wth are they going to do with that money, shouldnt it be used to improve the internet traffic , eg faster backbones? Same way they use roadtax to improve roads
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Tuluvar
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hmm
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# Jul 02 2003 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
__DEL__1593361760334
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europeons pay more then americians? yet get a much worse costumer service....
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RE: hmm
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# Jul 02 2003 at 8:02 PM Rating: Default
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Worse customer service? What, are they throwing rocks at you now? How can it possibly get worse than none?

And BTW, this has nothing to do with the game. SOE didn't jack up your prices, your government did.

Edited, Wed Jul 2 20:20:03 2003
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17.5
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# Jul 02 2003 at 6:43 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Funny enough, not all EU is under 17.5%, I can think of places... like the canary islands (spanish islands) whose vat is 8%.

Hmmm anyone know if I can open an non EU credit card? LOL.

I also wander why they didnt warn before, so that we could all run and get yearly subscriptions.

All we need is the Euro to be at exchange rate of 1.20 US or more, to pay the same as before, we get charged in dollars anyway. LOL

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RE: 17.5
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# Jul 03 2003 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Anonymous
OPEN A SECURE CARD WITH A US BACK, DROP $200 in it and let Sony bill from there
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RE: 17.5
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# Jul 03 2003 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
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than only the others came into my mind where the VAT is not 8% nor 17.5% but 25% #$%@^##@..:)

Like Hungary
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LOL
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# Jul 02 2003 at 5:55 PM Rating: Default
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Can you imagine them discussing this in congress or wherever they decide this stuff.
Um..excuse me...what if we taxed all the people that play games online?!?! How random is that? that doesnt even make sense. Why not tax people for going to the beach and using the sun. Bastards, greedy bastards
I do actually feel bad i am in a mainly UK guild, so this is gonna effect most of the people that i play with.....God Bless America

Edited, Wed Jul 2 18:59:19 2003
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Taxes
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# Jul 02 2003 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Until the world gets off the "Help the poor and needy" through government kick, this and every other country will continue to bite the working man's A$$.

And please, no more "It's only 2 or 3 dollars" remarks. I only pay $8 month in tax on my electric bill, I only pay $3 tax on my water bill, I only pay $50 a week in federal taxes, I only pay $20 week in Social Security Tax, I only pay $4 a week in Medicaid tax, I only pay a 17% entertainment tax if I go to the movies, I only pay a 5% state sales Tax, I only pay a 4% federal sales tax, I only pay a 1% local sales tax, I only pay a $1 tax on my cell phone every month, I only pay $500 a year in property tax, I only pay 79 cents a gallon gas tax, I only pay 12% taxes on my stock profits, I only pay.....and on and on. Another $2 wont break me, but agreeing that $2 isnt that much will lead to a tax on everything else until people stand up and tell the government of the country they're in ...NO MORE!!!
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THE EU
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# Jul 02 2003 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
Rezonation
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I say we get the EU government addicted to EQ then they will show some mercy
/shrug
p.s.-sorry for you peeps that gotta pay this fee...(and I thought it was expensive enough *sheesh*)

Edited, Wed Jul 2 16:40:38 2003
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RE: THE EU
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# Jul 02 2003 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
__DEL__1591784229815
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lol
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Taxes.
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# Jul 02 2003 at 4:22 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Anonymous
Anyone who has to pay taxes, doesn't like it. If a tax is for a reasonable cause, it's bearable. Why should a tax as this one even be considered? I don't know, but if this happens in the U.S. I guess I can find better things to do with my time.
For those who are "required" to pay this wrong tax, I can only say I feel for ya.
Hopefully this does NOT continue, and is stopped before spreading like a virus.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to spam me :)
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Taxes
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# Jul 02 2003 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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My guess is that the EU found some legal way to charge SOE for "services rendered", so SOE is passing on that cost onto the customers, with maybe a few extra percentage points for SOE profit.
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RE: Taxes
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# Jul 02 2003 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
WiscoPlayer
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Its not just SOE. The VAT applies to all goods and services provides/sold via The Internet. Also according to news articles the VAT varies from country to country anywhere from 15% to 25%. So with SOE doing a flat 17.5%, my guess is SOE will probably be paying a bit out of their pocket. Its bad for those countries that only have a 15% VAT, but a blessing for those having a higher than 17.5% VAT.

In the end, its just a different way to say tarriff to protect businesses in the EU.
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heh
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# Jul 02 2003 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Anonymous
how come im not surprised... i mean they tax all other things, make it so that we cant import DVDs from asia and god knows what, so honestly im not surprised.
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/rude EU ... /Rude Taxes
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# Jul 02 2003 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
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I realize that we need taxes , although they suck. I was raised in NJ, USA and we have high taxes for products and such at 7%.

But 17% ???? I fell for you guys in EU areas .... NK, DZ and such guilds on Vazaelle. I would personally tell the ppl to goto hell.... thats say 2.25/month, 27$/year. Now lets say Within the whole EU only 5000 ppl play EQ... Thats 135,000$ a year ... for what ?

Yeah , Hello Mr. Socialist I need you to bite me before I vote for you again ! Its BS, sorry guys ..... One good thing is our cowboy is too stupid to try and worry about anything but oil and such ! ( yeah didnt vote for GWB jr. ).
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RE: /rude EU ... /Rude Taxes
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# Jul 02 2003 at 6:51 PM Rating: Default
Tuluvar
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Hehe sorry mate but nearly half the EQ community is from EU, can you say $$ ?
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Tuluvar
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RE: /rude EU ... /Rude Taxes
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# Jul 06 2003 at 7:47 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Cite your source, please. Besides, isn't it apples and oranges to compare the US to Western Europe?
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RE: /rude EU ... /Rude Taxes
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# Jul 02 2003 at 11:00 PM Rating: Default
Anonymous
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Anonymous
half? LOL putz
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