Here are some basic LDoN questions:
Assume all else being equal--
1. Does a party of lower level have a easier, equal, or harder adventure than a higher level party of the same number?
2. Does a party of 3 have a easier, equal, or harder adventure compared to a party of 6?
3. Do the drops vary by party level or party size?
Since I've only been involved in 6 player adventures, and a limited number at that, I'm not sure of the above.
Looting question:
How do you guys split the loot (I'm not talking magic items or weapons)? Suppose a Blue Diamond drops, do you sell it to the Magus and then buy it back? Does the buyer give 300 to 500pp to the Master Looter directly?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
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Quote:
1. Does a party of lower level have a easier, equal, or harder adventure than a higher level party of the same number?
SOE hasn't verified how they do it but most people agree that it is based on the average level of the party. For example, if the part is avg level 63 or higher then the get the lvl 65 dungeon which is full of lvl 59-61 monsters. If the avg level is 58-63 then they get the lvl 60 dungeon full of 56-58 monsters. This can be extrapolated down to lower levels as well (e.g. avg lvl 53-58 is lvl 55 dungeon with mobs 51-53).
Quote:
2. Does a party of 3 have a easier, equal, or harder adventure compared to a party of 6?
3. Do the drops vary by party level or party size?
I have done 3 person LDON's and it is the exact same dungeon. Drops are only deteremined by the avg level not by the number of players.
Quote:
How do you guys split the loot (I'm not talking magic items or weapons)? Suppose a Blue Diamond drops, do you sell it to the Magus and then buy it back? Does the buyer give 300 to 500pp to the Master Looter directly?
I am used to high 60's for LDON where most people do not need blue diamonds anymore so in general they are just sold to the magus as cash loot /shrug.
Thanks Jarlo for the good information. I too have only sold to the Magus then split the cash. But, now I want to get Blue Diamonds for jewelry--the bazaar is outrageously high, but I don't think the group (mid 30s) will want to roll when this kind of item comes up and it's too valuable to just ask for.
When you say "it's the exact same dungeon" is that literal? Same floor plan sure, but the same number of MOBS? Same goals (collect 25 or kill 30)?
These are the kinds of questions only answered by experienced LDoN adventurers at both high and lower levels.
--Grothmar
When you say "it's the exact same dungeon" is that literal? Same floor plan sure, but the same number of MOBS? Same goals (collect 25 or kill 30)?
These are the kinds of questions only answered by experienced LDoN adventurers at both high and lower levels.
--Grothmar
Morning,
Having done about 15 LDON adventures with a few toons my experience is still limited but I can answer a few questions.
Random Drop's (i.e. magic stuff, augmentations, etc.) are typically rolled on /random 100. There is a NBG (need before greed) variable that factors in. For example, A Spell Caster typically would pass on a 1hs weapon or a strength Augumentation. A fighter would pass on a wand, staff, or Intelligence Augmentation.
LDON Adventures difficulty is based on a complex formula but the dungeon is based on the level of your group. However, experienced players starting new toons make the lower levels (20-40) seem like cake because they know how to play that game. I have grouped with some toons that made "hard" missions look like a walk through the park. I have also grouped with toons that made easy missions more difficult then they needed to be.
Drops will vary on the level of your party. You will never get a level 50 item with a level 25 group. The drops are desgined to be "attractive" to the current level of your character. The number of party members does not affect drop rate. I have adventured with a party of 3 (after the 2 tanks left - bastards!) and we picked up a total of 7 augmentations and 4 nice magic items. I have also adventured with a full group and picked up 1 aug and and sword.
There is a way to split the loot after it is sold to a vendor. I have never been the main looter so I dont know the exact commands. You dont have to be close to the guy splitting the loot - just in the same zone to get your share.
Hope this helps!
Lurff
Level 30 Pally
Bristlebane Server
Having done about 15 LDON adventures with a few toons my experience is still limited but I can answer a few questions.
Random Drop's (i.e. magic stuff, augmentations, etc.) are typically rolled on /random 100. There is a NBG (need before greed) variable that factors in. For example, A Spell Caster typically would pass on a 1hs weapon or a strength Augumentation. A fighter would pass on a wand, staff, or Intelligence Augmentation.
LDON Adventures difficulty is based on a complex formula but the dungeon is based on the level of your group. However, experienced players starting new toons make the lower levels (20-40) seem like cake because they know how to play that game. I have grouped with some toons that made "hard" missions look like a walk through the park. I have also grouped with toons that made easy missions more difficult then they needed to be.
Drops will vary on the level of your party. You will never get a level 50 item with a level 25 group. The drops are desgined to be "attractive" to the current level of your character. The number of party members does not affect drop rate. I have adventured with a party of 3 (after the 2 tanks left - bastards!) and we picked up a total of 7 augmentations and 4 nice magic items. I have also adventured with a full group and picked up 1 aug and and sword.
There is a way to split the loot after it is sold to a vendor. I have never been the main looter so I dont know the exact commands. You dont have to be close to the guy splitting the loot - just in the same zone to get your share.
Hope this helps!
Lurff
Level 30 Pally
Bristlebane Server
My (perhaps mistaken) understanding is that if you request an adventure with less than six people the dungeon is slightly adjusted accordingly. I believe I read something like the mobs on a four person have 80-85% of the hitpoints of those in a six person. I haven't parsed it myself, so take it with a grain of salt 
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I think that the themes may also have staggered steps.
There are a fixed number of setups for each dungeon (11 IIRC) and this is determined by the average level of the group. Once the group average passes a certain point then the adventure jumps to the next setup. Recent experience make me think that the switch varies from dungeon to dungeon.
I've been doing a lot of 3 person dungeons lately with me boxing Cleric and SK. We started with Cleric 34, SK 29, Enchanter 29 and are now 40,38,37 respectively (enchanters die a lot). We started on Rujarkan and did well until suddenly we just couldn't handle it. Spells would not stick, mobs took too long to kill etc, etc. Obviously we had advanced to the next step.
We tried Mistmoore instead and were back in a relatively easy situation and able to make spells stick and drop mobs fast. Now we have returned to Rujarkan and can handle it again.
With our 3-person group we have had up to 2 named in one dungeon and seem to get the same missions - Collect 29, Kill 57 etc. Obviously they have to provide that number of mobs (I hope they do anyway)
Almost impossible to verify the reduced hitpoint suggestion without doing another LDoN the same with a full group for comparison. And then you are unlikely to get the exact same dungeon. Is it safe to assume that a Steelcrown Ruffian has the same hp in Drudge Hollows as in The Fortified Wotsits of the Taskmasters?
There are a fixed number of setups for each dungeon (11 IIRC) and this is determined by the average level of the group. Once the group average passes a certain point then the adventure jumps to the next setup. Recent experience make me think that the switch varies from dungeon to dungeon.
I've been doing a lot of 3 person dungeons lately with me boxing Cleric and SK. We started with Cleric 34, SK 29, Enchanter 29 and are now 40,38,37 respectively (enchanters die a lot
). We started on Rujarkan and did well until suddenly we just couldn't handle it. Spells would not stick, mobs took too long to kill etc, etc. Obviously we had advanced to the next step. We tried Mistmoore instead and were back in a relatively easy situation and able to make spells stick and drop mobs fast. Now we have returned to Rujarkan and can handle it again.
With our 3-person group we have had up to 2 named in one dungeon and seem to get the same missions - Collect 29, Kill 57 etc. Obviously they have to provide that number of mobs (I hope they do anyway)
Almost impossible to verify the reduced hitpoint suggestion without doing another LDoN the same with a full group for comparison. And then you are unlikely to get the exact same dungeon. Is it safe to assume that a Steelcrown Ruffian has the same hp in Drudge Hollows as in The Fortified Wotsits of the Taskmasters?
Wherever I go - there I am.
I am not one who pays much attention to levels, party size, etc. in selcting a dungeon. I just go for the fun and the xp. I do get tapped to ML quite a bit though, so I have a little experience with the loot questions. Most groups that I have been in will have me sell everything sellable to a merchant and split cash. I would say 99% have been this way. There are some noteable exceptions though.
Gemstones: Peridots default to a cleric (Temperence enabled or higher), especially if that cleric has buffed people in the group.
JC gems can be purchased for the price a vendor offers, or for foregoing split.
Words/Runes: If a researcher asks that words/runes be given to them, we typically ask 2pp per.
TS Items: I have never had someone ask specifically for TS items except 1, Gargoyle Granite. Gargoyle Granite sells for between 75 and 150 pp on my server in the bazaar, but only 1 gold and change to the vendor. Typically if anyone asks for it, there are more than one, so it is rolled and won. No split is forfeited.
Droppable items: On an honor system, my rule in groups is Can and Will Use. this differs from NBG because more than your class, etc., is taken in to account. I ask that people who can upgrade with an item roll first, then a greed roll, regardless of useable classes. This is on an honor system, but I play with the same people quite frequently, so not often a problem.
Hope it helps.
Gemstones: Peridots default to a cleric (Temperence enabled or higher), especially if that cleric has buffed people in the group.
JC gems can be purchased for the price a vendor offers, or for foregoing split.
Words/Runes: If a researcher asks that words/runes be given to them, we typically ask 2pp per.
TS Items: I have never had someone ask specifically for TS items except 1, Gargoyle Granite. Gargoyle Granite sells for between 75 and 150 pp on my server in the bazaar, but only 1 gold and change to the vendor. Typically if anyone asks for it, there are more than one, so it is rolled and won. No split is forfeited.
Droppable items: On an honor system, my rule in groups is Can and Will Use. this differs from NBG because more than your class, etc., is taken in to account. I ask that people who can upgrade with an item roll first, then a greed roll, regardless of useable classes. This is on an honor system, but I play with the same people quite frequently, so not often a problem.
Hope it helps.
More very good information, thanks again!
Having been a ML most of the time, in higher level dungeons, my experience is similar to Moebiuself's. But splitting tradeskill items I've never done. It seems awkward charging gold (Magus's price) when the Gargoyle Granite can sell for plat in the bazaar. Rolling does seem the best way. Certainly this must add significant time after the adventure to splitting up the goods.
Lurff, the command "/split pp gp sp cp" (spaces only, no commas) divides the loot between all group members IN THE ZONE. If you're still in seperate zones those outside ML's zone will not get anything. Further, Odd numbers go to the ML automatically. In most cases we're talking two or three plat at the most to the ML.
Having been a ML most of the time, in higher level dungeons, my experience is similar to Moebiuself's. But splitting tradeskill items I've never done. It seems awkward charging gold (Magus's price) when the Gargoyle Granite can sell for plat in the bazaar. Rolling does seem the best way. Certainly this must add significant time after the adventure to splitting up the goods.
Lurff, the command "/split pp gp sp cp" (spaces only, no commas) divides the loot between all group members IN THE ZONE. If you're still in seperate zones those outside ML's zone will not get anything. Further, Odd numbers go to the ML automatically. In most cases we're talking two or three plat at the most to the ML.
One thing that makes it difficult for me sometimes is that I also forage GG. I keep close track of what I loot and grab the looted granite and move it to a spot farther down in my bags, so that I can keep it straight. I go to great lengths to be able to assure people that when it comes out, pot's right. :)
I ML pretty often, and I actually find it somewhat amusing that you're selling at the Magus. On Kane Bayle, every single LDoN, as far as I can tell, starts in PoK. I've never been in any of the Wayfarer's Camp zones and seen people recruiting. Occasionally I see the random person who doesn't have PoP sitting at a Camp LFG, hoping to get into a group that isn't full, but that's pretty rare.
Anyway, the reason I brought it up was that when I ML I always head to the bank in PoK and pick up my two Opal Encrusted Steins, to get my CHA up to a decent selling value. It makes a pretty good difference, I feel, and I've more than made back the 45 pp I paid for the two of them, even when splitting is included. Of course, chanter and/or shammy buffs can raise CHA too, but they aren't always available.
Last night I did 3 LDoNs with the exact same group...we started out Normal Risk, and won so quickly (levels 34-40, no temperance) that we just ran back to PoK to split and do a High Risk. This time most of us got temperance...and it lasted us all the way through both of the next two High Risks that we did, both of which were won handily. I only got 2 augments out of the whole thing, but that was fine with me...for a group that good, it was just a joy to be playing. Oh, and I dinged 41 too, and only 3 more points from buying Pack Shrew! Which I will need to be level 44 to use, but at least I'll have it ready. And maybe I can start doing adventures other than Mistmoore.
Oh yeah, I was going to say that at least on Kane Bayle, where 90% of people my level are twinked out, LDoNs on Normal are almost trivial, and Hards are only a challenge when the twinks don't know how to play their characters. Perhaps this is the same on many servers. But I have heard it changes a lot at higher levels, into the 50s...because then the twinked gear is basically what everyone else has and so you aren't really stronger than expected for that level. So Hard missions really are Hard.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
Anyway, the reason I brought it up was that when I ML I always head to the bank in PoK and pick up my two Opal Encrusted Steins, to get my CHA up to a decent selling value. It makes a pretty good difference, I feel, and I've more than made back the 45 pp I paid for the two of them, even when splitting is included. Of course, chanter and/or shammy buffs can raise CHA too, but they aren't always available.
Last night I did 3 LDoNs with the exact same group...we started out Normal Risk, and won so quickly (levels 34-40, no temperance) that we just ran back to PoK to split and do a High Risk. This time most of us got temperance...and it lasted us all the way through both of the next two High Risks that we did, both of which were won handily. I only got 2 augments out of the whole thing, but that was fine with me...for a group that good, it was just a joy to be playing. Oh, and I dinged 41 too, and only 3 more points from buying Pack Shrew! Which I will need to be level 44 to use, but at least I'll have it ready. And maybe I can start doing adventures other than Mistmoore.
Oh yeah, I was going to say that at least on Kane Bayle, where 90% of people my level are twinked out, LDoNs on Normal are almost trivial, and Hards are only a challenge when the twinks don't know how to play their characters. Perhaps this is the same on many servers. But I have heard it changes a lot at higher levels, into the 50s...because then the twinked gear is basically what everyone else has and so you aren't really stronger than expected for that level. So Hard missions really are Hard.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
All the small group LDON's groups I have done have no obvious difference in mob HP or number of monsters. SOE stated that level is the only factor that matters in determining which dungeon you get. Classes or number of people do not factor in.
The Oneiromancer raises an interesting issue. Where do you start LDoN?
I view it as my responsibility to get KEI and/or Virtue before I start looking to join a group. When I'm recruited it's usually from one of the Wayfarer's camps, so I run there to "follow" the group. The mission has to be picked there so it seems "natural" to assemble the group there and split the loot there. What I don't like is the lack of a bank at the Wayfarer's camp. I would happily run to a bank and "buy" the dropped Blue Diamond for 200pp, or ask anyone else to "buy" the Trade Skill item he wants before I split the total loot. My experience as a ML is because my Enchanter has a Charisma of 250, thus I get the best prices without steins. It seems my alternatives are to carry enough cash to buy the loot for what it's worth or to sell to the Magus, run to a nearby bank and hope the Blue Diamond is still there when I get back. It seems awkward when I have a Blue Diamond in my hand rather than running back to find it in the "bush".
This whole discussion about splitting loot seems somewhat ****, but when you have German ancestry it comes with the genes. LOL
Thanks again guys1
I view it as my responsibility to get KEI and/or Virtue before I start looking to join a group. When I'm recruited it's usually from one of the Wayfarer's camps, so I run there to "follow" the group. The mission has to be picked there so it seems "natural" to assemble the group there and split the loot there. What I don't like is the lack of a bank at the Wayfarer's camp. I would happily run to a bank and "buy" the dropped Blue Diamond for 200pp, or ask anyone else to "buy" the Trade Skill item he wants before I split the total loot. My experience as a ML is because my Enchanter has a Charisma of 250, thus I get the best prices without steins. It seems my alternatives are to carry enough cash to buy the loot for what it's worth or to sell to the Magus, run to a nearby bank and hope the Blue Diamond is still there when I get back. It seems awkward when I have a Blue Diamond in my hand rather than running back to find it in the "bush".
This whole discussion about splitting loot seems somewhat ****, but when you have German ancestry it comes with the genes. LOL
Thanks again guys1
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